Samsung HD204UI (F4 EcoGreen)

Printers, HDDs, USB/eSATA drives, 3rd-party programs
Locked
P3R
Guru
Posts: 13192
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:39 am
Location: Stockholm, Sweden (UTC+01:00)

Re: Samsung HD204UI (F4 EcoGreen)

Post by P3R »

Kalab wrote:Is there any compelling reason for me to upgrade to the latest firmware after the backups and before the expansion process?
Absolutely, read the release notes for 3.2.0 about WD EARS. Samsung F4 are the same. With 3.3.0 you will also get some other enhancements.
Should I preferably create a new RAID set with the 3 new 2 gig drives and resotre my backed up data to this set (this will mean downtime, which I want to avoid)?
Yes.
Should I but a shiny new NAS box from QNAP and create the new share using remote replication (I have been thinking about this as a great data security solution for a while, I would move the 409 offsite and keep the new NAS onsite)?
If the budget permits it Remote Replication to an off-site unit is a very nice solution. Personally I still also backup to external disks for extra safety but not as often as before.

With a new NAS you will also get eSATA-support which will improve the external backup speed immensely over the USB in the 409. But, with twice the storage capacity administration of the backups will be more complicated.
Will the online expansion make sure that the drives are aligned properly?
No, read the 3.2.0 Release Notes.
User avatar
Kalab
Starting out
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 6:47 pm
Location: London

Re: Samsung HD204UI (F4 EcoGreen)

Post by Kalab »

Hi, thanks for your reply.
There is nothing in the release notes about why the 4k sector hard drive supportability of the new firmware is interesting. Does it mean better performance? If so, how much?
What is the advantage of creating a new RAID set as opposed to using the expansion method? A new RAID set means I will need to create shares, users and all of that stuff again, a real pain for me.
The release notes say nothing about drive alignment that I can see. Do you have any info?
Thanks
NAS: TS-412 F/W 4.0.2 | TS-409 F/W 3.3.2
P3R
Guru
Posts: 13192
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:39 am
Location: Stockholm, Sweden (UTC+01:00)

Re: Samsung HD204UI (F4 EcoGreen)

Post by P3R »

Kalab wrote:There is nothing in the release notes about why the 4k sector hard drive supportability of the new firmware is interesting. Does it mean better performance? If so, how much?
Yes that support does mean better performance. Users that used 4k-disks with old firmware have reported really bad performance.

Since I'm not really that interested I haven't bothered to notice all the details so my recommendation would be to search the forum yourself.
What is the advantage of creating a new RAID set as opposed to using the expansion method?
That it will work well with 4k.
A new RAID set means I will need to create shares, users and all of that stuff again, a real pain for me.
Not necessarily. The configuration (containing what you mention) can be backed up to a file from the admin interface and later restored. I'm not sure if it will work perfectly but when changing from one three disk RAID 5 to another I'd be surpried if it wasn't successful.
The release notes say nothing about drive alignment that I can see. Do you have any info?
If "drive alignment" doesn't refer to the 4k-issue I have no idea what it is.
llmercll
New here
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:25 am

Re: Samsung HD204UI (F4 EcoGreen)

Post by llmercll »

Does anyone have more information on "program fail count" SMART settings? Me and a friend both have these drives and our numbers are very high, 280,000 and 430,000

thanks!
razulli
New here
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 9:58 pm

Re: Samsung HD204UI (F4 EcoGreen)

Post by razulli »

@Jason

So QNAP tested the HD204UI model and found they work. I just wonder what about the HD204UI/Z4. Are they any different? There are rumours that the HD204UI is a 512 sector HDD while the HD204UI/Z4 is a 4k with 512 emulation HDD. So basically the HD204UI should work without a question while the HD204UI/Z4 might be problematic. Could you comment on that?
User avatar
Kalab
Starting out
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 6:47 pm
Location: London

Re: Samsung HD204UI (F4 EcoGreen)

Post by Kalab »

The HD204UI/Z4 is the only model that I have seen available for sale.
NAS: TS-412 F/W 4.0.2 | TS-409 F/W 3.3.2
User avatar
Q
Experience counts
Posts: 1436
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:18 pm
Location: Switzerland
Contact:

Re: Samsung HD204UI (F4 EcoGreen)

Post by Q »

i didn't see any /Z4 yet on the swiss market. only HD204UI.

according to my source (a big shop), the /Z4 is refurbished or "ultra" OEM version with reduced warranty of only 1 year! for those who like it cheaper than cheap. i suggest you stay far far away from the /Z4.
Last edited by Q on Wed Nov 10, 2010 12:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
I am Q
www.qnap.ch

I don't work at QNAP.
And RAID is really NO backup!
User avatar
Manni
Easy as a breeze
Posts: 427
Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 6:19 am

Re: Samsung HD204UI (F4 EcoGreen)

Post by Manni »

Same here in the UK, never seen a Z4.

Just bought 8 HD204UI, testing them right now on the desktop, about to start upgrading my drives in the TS-859.

I'll update the thread with the results...
NAS1: TS-809Pro 24TB 8xHitachi 5K3000 /EXT4/No encryption F/W: 4.1.3
NAS2: TS-859Pro 48TB 8xWD Red 6TB RAID6/EXT4/No encryption F/W: 4.1.3
NAS3: TS-119P+ 3TB 1xHitachi 7K3000/No encryption F/W: 4.1.3
NAS4: Synology DS-2411+ 48TB 12xHitachi 7K4000
NAS5: Thecus N5200 7.5TB 5xWD15EADS RAID5/EXT3 F/W 2.00.18.4
NAS6: Intel RAID5 15TB 5xWD20EADS RAID5
N/W: GS116, Netgear D6400
Clients (Win7 Ult SP1 x64): Corei5 Desktop, MacBookPro 13" 2012
UPS: APC Back UPS ES700, ES700ES, & Belkin F6H500UKUNV
Misc: Dune BD Base 3.0, NeoTV 550, Slingbox Pro HD
llmercll
New here
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:25 am

Re: Samsung HD204UI (F4 EcoGreen)

Post by llmercll »

Could you guys with multiple drives check SMART for (b5) program fail count? I've got 2 drives with very high raw data numbers (280,000 and 500,000) for this smart attribute and want to know if it's common on these drives.

thanks
User avatar
spoon.uk
Been there, done that
Posts: 992
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 7:14 pm
Location: London, United Kingdom
Contact:

Re: Samsung HD204UI (F4 EcoGreen)

Post by spoon.uk »

Manni wrote:Same here in the UK, never seen a Z4.
One of MANY shops that sell them include scan...
symphys
Know my way around
Posts: 105
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:41 am

Re: Samsung HD204UI (F4 EcoGreen)

Post by symphys »

How can I check if 4K support is enabled?
QNAP TS-209 Pro, RAID1 with Samsung 2Tb HDDs
Firmware features used: FTP, Samba, SSH, Twonky UPnP MediaServer
UPnP Clients: Philips Cineos Flat TV 42PFL9703D, Dell XPS M1710 Windows 7 Ultimate, PlugPlayer with backgrounder on iPhone
Optware features: OpenVPN, Subversion
User avatar
Manni
Easy as a breeze
Posts: 427
Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 6:19 am

Re: Samsung HD204UI (F4 EcoGreen)

Post by Manni »

spoon.uk wrote:
Manni wrote:Same here in the UK, never seen a Z4.
One of MANY shops that sell them include scan...
Yes, I know, it took me many emails and two delivery attempts to get drives under UK warranty. I didn't order from scan because when queried they honestly aknowledged the fact that they couldn't guarantee the drives would be UK stock. I bought some from a reseller who I think was genuinely expecting their stock to be UK stock (they confirmed it to me in writing prior to me confirming my order), but when I received the drives they were out of service area, the reseller had an interesting discussion with their supplier, and the drives went back against a full refund. I got many resellers promising they were buying from UK suppliers, but refusing to guarantee that the drives themselves would be UK stock. Finally, I got a new batch which is genuine UK stock, all serial numbers return a 100 warranty code. I won't say from which reseller, as it may be a different batch by the time someone orders, but at least get a confirmation in writing (that drives will be UK stock, covered by Samsung UK 3 year warranty) before ordering, that way you can send them back against a full refund if they are not when you check them using the Samsung online checker. Don't order if resellers don't reply or refuse to confirm. Any reseller can go bankrupt, I want a manufacturer's warranty when I buy ££££ worth of disks.

By the way the idea that if a piece of electronic doesn't fail over the first 6 months it won't fail at all is entirely false, at least in my experience, especially with mechanical drives...
NAS1: TS-809Pro 24TB 8xHitachi 5K3000 /EXT4/No encryption F/W: 4.1.3
NAS2: TS-859Pro 48TB 8xWD Red 6TB RAID6/EXT4/No encryption F/W: 4.1.3
NAS3: TS-119P+ 3TB 1xHitachi 7K3000/No encryption F/W: 4.1.3
NAS4: Synology DS-2411+ 48TB 12xHitachi 7K4000
NAS5: Thecus N5200 7.5TB 5xWD15EADS RAID5/EXT3 F/W 2.00.18.4
NAS6: Intel RAID5 15TB 5xWD20EADS RAID5
N/W: GS116, Netgear D6400
Clients (Win7 Ult SP1 x64): Corei5 Desktop, MacBookPro 13" 2012
UPS: APC Back UPS ES700, ES700ES, & Belkin F6H500UKUNV
Misc: Dune BD Base 3.0, NeoTV 550, Slingbox Pro HD
User avatar
Kalab
Starting out
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 6:47 pm
Location: London

Re: Samsung HD204UI (F4 EcoGreen)

Post by Kalab »

I never had a Samsung drive fail on me yet, so I am not too bothered. The drive's capacity usually becomes redundant before any failure at any rate. Scan give the following details of warranty for these drives:

Duration: 36 months
Type: Direct
DOA Period: 28 days
RTB Period: 1 months

So I don't really understand the warranty issue. I would rather by a Samsung HD than a Western Digital or Seagate, both of which have failed for me. The Z4s cannot be refurbished, I can't believe that. I bought them as new.
NAS: TS-412 F/W 4.0.2 | TS-409 F/W 3.3.2
User avatar
Manni
Easy as a breeze
Posts: 427
Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 6:19 am

Re: Samsung HD204UI (F4 EcoGreen)

Post by Manni »

Kalab wrote:I never had a Samsung drive fail on me yet, so I am not too bothered. The drive's capacity usually becomes redundant before any failure at any rate. Scan give the following details of warranty for these drives:

Duration: 36 months
Type: Direct
DOA Period: 28 days
RTB Period: 1 months

So I don't really understand the warranty issue. I would rather by a Samsung HD than a Western Digital or Seagate, both of which have failed for me. The Z4s cannot be refurbished, I can't believe that. I bought them as new.
As long as Scan is in business, you are fine, they are a very good reseller (I often buy from them). This is just an issue for the Samsung drives, and in the UK only. OEM doesn't mean refurbished or second hand, it means they come from a stock which is not meant to be bought by the end user (like a stock from Dell, or a stock from another country).

I used to buy WD, but not anymore given all the problems I had with the EADS series, and the fact that when they send you a replacement, it may be compatible or not depending on the f/w.

So I agree with you, if you're in the market for > 1TB drives at a reasonable cost, I would avoid Seagate or WD at the moment, and I'd rather buy Samsung drives, which is exactly what I did. The Samsung do have a good reliability reputation, but when I buy 8 drives it is not unusual for me to get at least one DOA, sometimes two.

This Samsung warranty thing is UK specific, and not a problem if you don't mind having no warranty if your reseller goes bust. I do, which is why I suggested for buyers to check before buying if they mind too.

I still have some WD-1000FYPS which are a bit more than 3 years old, I still use them as backup drives, and I will get them replaced by WD should they fail within the next 2 years, whether the reseller I bought them from is still in business or not (in fact, I don't even need to remember who the reseller was).

Also, I prefer to send the drives directly to the manufacturer as it means I will get a faster turnaround. Although Scan are very good, they do take some time to check the drives, while I want to get a replacement ASAP to protect my RAID array. Some manufacturers - like WD - even offer an advanced RMA, where they send the new drive before even receivng the defective one, which is great if you have a drive with a growing number of bad sectors, but if it hasn't failed yet. That way you really minimise the downtime of the redundancy in your array, and the risk of losing your data.
NAS1: TS-809Pro 24TB 8xHitachi 5K3000 /EXT4/No encryption F/W: 4.1.3
NAS2: TS-859Pro 48TB 8xWD Red 6TB RAID6/EXT4/No encryption F/W: 4.1.3
NAS3: TS-119P+ 3TB 1xHitachi 7K3000/No encryption F/W: 4.1.3
NAS4: Synology DS-2411+ 48TB 12xHitachi 7K4000
NAS5: Thecus N5200 7.5TB 5xWD15EADS RAID5/EXT3 F/W 2.00.18.4
NAS6: Intel RAID5 15TB 5xWD20EADS RAID5
N/W: GS116, Netgear D6400
Clients (Win7 Ult SP1 x64): Corei5 Desktop, MacBookPro 13" 2012
UPS: APC Back UPS ES700, ES700ES, & Belkin F6H500UKUNV
Misc: Dune BD Base 3.0, NeoTV 550, Slingbox Pro HD
User avatar
Manni
Easy as a breeze
Posts: 427
Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 6:19 am

Re: Samsung HD204UI (F4 EcoGreen)

Post by Manni »

NAS1: TS-809Pro 24TB 8xHitachi 5K3000 /EXT4/No encryption F/W: 4.1.3
NAS2: TS-859Pro 48TB 8xWD Red 6TB RAID6/EXT4/No encryption F/W: 4.1.3
NAS3: TS-119P+ 3TB 1xHitachi 7K3000/No encryption F/W: 4.1.3
NAS4: Synology DS-2411+ 48TB 12xHitachi 7K4000
NAS5: Thecus N5200 7.5TB 5xWD15EADS RAID5/EXT3 F/W 2.00.18.4
NAS6: Intel RAID5 15TB 5xWD20EADS RAID5
N/W: GS116, Netgear D6400
Clients (Win7 Ult SP1 x64): Corei5 Desktop, MacBookPro 13" 2012
UPS: APC Back UPS ES700, ES700ES, & Belkin F6H500UKUNV
Misc: Dune BD Base 3.0, NeoTV 550, Slingbox Pro HD
Locked

Return to “Hardware & Software Compatibility”